A battery that can recharge in seconds: Researchers use supercapacitor parts to build a new type of sodium-ion battery

WhiteLeaff said:

Sounds fake, what battery has 100% efficiency? (according to the original article).

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Put in those "probable" outcomes in your research articles to help garner big backers so you get more money.

m4a4 said:

Another "promising" piece of battery tech. But at least it sounds like it's more likely than the other hundreds of revolutionary battery techs that get announced over the years.

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The problem usually isn't technology; its getting that technology into a product into the mass market.

And it might actually make EVs worth using IMO. The only things I don't see are the battery life expectancy and safety. What's the chance it also improves on degradation? And how safe is it (considering how fast it sounds like it could discharge that energy)?

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Lithium reacts to pretty much everything, hence why it tends to be dangerous. Sodium is much less reactive, and thus safer.

That said, the charging infrastructure is still too abysmal to have high hopes right now for cars, even if this tech gets implemented and used tomorrow.
Phone batteries, however, it would be a wonderful change...

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Note in other countries (like the Nordic ones) that invested in infrastructure now have a majority of their new sales being electric vehicles. By contrast, the US is doing the "let the industry figure it out", which in turn is slowing adoption for *exactly* this reason.

WhiteLeaff said:

Sounds fake, what battery has 100% efficiency?

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All capacitors do -- and thus ultracapacitors as well. That's why the original article specified coulombic efficiency.

This iteration might as well be science fiction. The big boys won’t ever let this see the light of day.

gamerk2 said:

Lithium reacts to pretty much everything, hence why it tends to be dangerous. Sodium is much less reactive, and thus safer.

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If it's build like a capacitor, how do you know it won't fail like one too?

gamerk2 said:

Lithium reacts to pretty much everything, hence why it tends to be dangerous. Sodium is much less reactive, and thus safer.

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Eh? Both lithium and sodium are Group I Alkali metals; pure sodium is actually *more* reactive than pure lithium. But neither type of battery uses the pure metal, but rather a salt of it.

Endymio said:

All capacitors do -- and thus ultracapacitors as well. That's why the original article specified coulombic efficiency.

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It does not reach 100% efficiency, although super capacitors have greater efficiency than batteries and can reach more than 98%. In practice, due to secondary reactions, electrical resistance, among other factors, the Coulombic efficiency is generally(always) less than 100%. The claim rings false.

"With any luck, the tech will eventually make its way from the lab to the real world."

Luck has nothing to do with it .... it's all about greed, plain and simple.

DanteSmith said:

It does not reach 100% efficiency, although super capacitors have greater efficiency than batteries and can reach more than 98% ... The claim rings false.

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98%? Capacitor efficiency is measured by Q factor; one can get High-Q caps with factors of 10,000, translating to an efficiency of 99.99% -- one thousand times as efficient as a Li-Ion charge cycle. While we live in a universe in which the Second Law of Thermodynamics operates no system is perfectly efficient, but charging a capacitor is about as close as it gets. While you're correct on a theoretical basis, in practice when charging losses are infinitesimal compared to those elsewhere in the system, they can be modeled as zero.

https://www.techspot.com/news/101350-china-introduces-first-ev-fueled-sodium-ion-battery.html

Seems sodium tech is already making its way into the real world

Rechargeable batteries, no matter what, still lose their efficiency over time.

Phone companies almost take advantage of sealed rechargeable batteries to force customers to upgrade their phones every couple of years, since giving for battery replacement costs almost half of a new phone. And another excuse they give to seal their phones is the so called water resistance. It's as though they are selling to the kids.

Uncle Al said:

"With any luck, the tech will eventually make its way from the lab to the real world."

Luck has nothing to do with it .... it's all about greed, plain and simple.

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It's not greed. If it was, then communist countries would already be using said tech, and bits of it would be seen in use by the elite.

Turns out making new battery tech is actually REALLY REALLY HARD and just because it works in a lab doesnt mean its durable, or can work at low temp, or make useful voltages, or survive multiple recharge cycles, or....

amghwk said:

Rechargeable batteries, no matter what, still lose their efficiency over time.

Phone companies almost take advantage of sealed rechargeable batteries to force customers to upgrade their phones every couple of years, since giving for battery replacement costs almost half of a new phone. And another excuse they give to seal their phones is the so called water resistance. It's as though they are selling to the kids.

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It literally costs less than $100 for just a battery replacement on an iPhone. If that were literally the only thing wrong, it certainly does not cost “almost half” and I bet Androids don’t cost much different for battery replacement.

As always, an effective pinch of salt required, because while this study may very well be correct and so on, commercial product realisation from it is a whole different story, and usually that is where things like this stumble, sodium ion has been out for a while with the problems of energy density and sloow recharge rate (along with other issues like lower peak current, shifts in the effective voltage range and so on) so if they can get this done cheaply and at high yield great, but if not, we go back to step 1 - from what their chart shows, it is a faster recharge, but with lower energy density if I understand it correctly (like expected with a super capacitor) so I'm not sure...

Have any of you ever gotten zapped by even a small capacitor. Imagine one with this kind of current. It'll toss your body into the alternate-universe.

WhoCaresAnymore said:

Have any of you ever gotten zapped by even a small capacitor. Imagine one with this kind of current. It'll toss your body into the alternate-universe.

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One and only time I've been shocked was when as a kid I opened up an old camera and tried to prise the capacitor that powered the flash off the PCB with a kitchen knife.

Turns out it still had plenty of charge in which I found out when I bridged the contacts. I remember the bang, smoke and my numb arm to this day, and that was just a capacitor for a compact camera flash.

Farkinell said:

One and only time I've been shocked was when as a kid I opened up an old camera and tried to prise the capacitor that powered the flash off the PCB with a kitchen knife.

Turns out it still had plenty of charge in which I found out when I bridged the contacts. I remember the bang, smoke and my numb arm to this day, and that was just a capacitor for a compact camera flash.

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Ouch! Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Shawn Knight said:

In a nutshell: Researchers from the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) have discovered a promising battery breakthrough that could revolutionize portable power. Professor Jeung Ku Kang and his team's work involves sodium-ion batteries, which are similar in design to traditional lithium-ion batteries and can be manufactured using the same sort of industrial processes. In these batteries, sodium ions replace lithium ions in the cathode, while the lithium salts in the electrolyte (the liquid that helps ferry charge between the battery electrodes) are traded out for sodium salts.

Sodium-ion batteries aren't new, but they've only started to gain traction in recent years. Compared to their lithium counterparts, the materials used in sodium batteries are far more abundant (up to 1,000 more plentiful) and affordable. They are also much safer than lithium-ion batteries, and can be discharged to 0V – eliminating the possibility of thermal runaway due to a short circuit.

Long charge times and less than desirable storage capacity, however, have kept sodium-ion batteries on the sidelines, but that could all change soon.

The KAIST team replaced common battery cathode materials with those used by supercapacitors, resulting in a high-energy, high-power hybrid sodium battery that can also be charged rapidly. Tweaks to the anode were made to improve capacity, and a method to synthesize an optimized electrode material was also utilized.

According to Kang, their solution has an energy density that exceeds commercially available lithium-ion batteries along with the output density characteristics of a capacitor. As a next-gen storage device, recharging will be possible in seconds to minutes, which would make it ideal for use in all sorts of electronic gadgets. It could also be a game-changer for automakers building EVs, allowing them to cut costs while delivering vehicles that could fully recharge in just a couple of minutes.

With any luck, the tech will eventually make its way from the lab to the real world.

The team's research has been published in the journal Science Direct.

Image credit: Mike Bird

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A battery that can recharge in seconds: Researchers use supercapacitor parts to build a new type of sodium-ion battery

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These batteries are similar to traditional lithium-ion batteries but use sodium ions instead of lithium ions. This makes them cheaper, safer, and faster to charge. The researchers achieved rapid charging by incorporating components typically found in supercapacitors.
This research is a big step towards faster charging times for all sorts of electronic devices, including electric vehicles. Sounds like a promising development in battery technology!

"t could also be a game-changer for automakers building EVs, allowing them to cut costs while delivering vehicles that could fully recharge in just a couple of minutes."

Cut costs they shall, by all kinds of means, including firing their workers and closing down factories. The prices of cars will never go down, only up-up-up, no matter how cheap it becomes to build a car. Only their profits will increase until the bubble bursts.

Just a quick calculation; charging a 100KWh EV battery in 1 minute would require a 6MW charging station?

Even on a good station getting a solid 100KW can be a challenge. And the charging cables are already wrist size.

They need to invent more than battery.

MasterAce said:

Just a quick calculation; charging a 100KWh EV battery in 1 minute would require a 6MW charging station?

Even on a good station getting a solid 100KW can be a challenge. And the charging cables are already wrist size.

They need to invent more than battery.

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Yeah, they need to invent perpetuum mobile, right after free electricity and the warp engine.

amghwk said:

Rechargeable batteries, no matter what, still lose their efficiency over time.

Phone companies almost take advantage of sealed rechargeable batteries to force customers to upgrade their phones every couple of years, since giving for battery replacement costs almost half of a new phone. And another excuse they give to seal their phones is the so called water resistance. It's as though they are selling to the kids.

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That method of planned obsolescence is...obsolete. Nowadays it is done in software: "This phone isn't compatible with this app". No more banking app for you!